tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post3975856466693849993..comments2024-03-18T19:30:48.757+05:30Comments on Ancient Inquiries: Shiva as Bada Dev: Gond Symbolisms on Indus SealsBibhu Dev Misrahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15388473714672380058noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-47045629859060327912020-04-02T11:05:40.101+05:302020-04-02T11:05:40.101+05:30आपको गोंडो के बारे में और अद्भुत जानकारी चाहिए तो...आपको गोंडो के बारे में और अद्भुत जानकारी चाहिए तो हीरालाल शुक्ल जी किताब आदिवासी सामंतवाद को पढ़िए, हीरालाल शुक्ल जी ने मध्यप्रदेश और छत्तीसगढ़ के इतिहास के बारे में कई किताबे लिखी है.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-86517592726007820392020-02-26T22:58:10.624+05:302020-02-26T22:58:10.624+05:30Thanks for clarifying that the Saila dance is also...Thanks for clarifying that the Saila dance is also called "Danda nach" in Chattisgarh. This ties in with my observation that the Dandiya dance of Gujarat is the same as the Saila Dance or Danda nach of Chattisgarh, and both are performed in honour of the tiger-riding goddess - Amba Mata in Gujarat and Danteshwari Mata in Chattisgarh. Many people do not realize how closely tribal traditions, customs and religious beliefs coincide with that of Hinduism. Both Hindus and tribals have derived their culture and traditions from the Indus Valley.Bibhu Dev Misrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15388473714672380058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-42264756578796741612020-01-30T10:29:25.471+05:302020-01-30T10:29:25.471+05:30सैला या डंडा नाच पुरे छत्तीसगढ़ में होता हैं , बस्त...सैला या डंडा नाच पुरे छत्तीसगढ़ में होता हैं , बस्तर संभाग में इस नाच को दूसरे नाम से संबोधित करते हैं,बाकि छत्तीसगढ़ में सैला या डंडा नाच कहते है,कई जगह दो छोटे डंडों को इस्तेमाल होता है तो कुछ जगह एक ही छोटे या बड़े डंडे का इस्तेमाल होता है Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-44081040987170853252020-01-29T11:43:12.778+05:302020-01-29T11:43:12.778+05:30छत्तीसगढ़ में गोंड पारम्परिक सरनेम के अलावा नाग,नाग...छत्तीसगढ़ में गोंड पारम्परिक सरनेम के अलावा नाग,नागवंशी,नागसोरी,नागरची,छिन्दक नाग और असुर भी लिखते है,असुर गोंडो की ही एक उपजाति है। छत्तीसगढ़ में हर शहर या कस्बे में रावण भांटा होता था मगर वहां रावण दहन नहीं होता था, रावण दहन बाहरी राज्यों के लोगो के आने के बाद शुरू हुआAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-13079156028032585932020-01-19T00:13:36.025+05:302020-01-19T00:13:36.025+05:30Thanks. I wrote about the Saila dance of Bastar an...Thanks. I wrote about the Saila dance of Bastar and the Dandiya dance of Gujarat in a separate article, where I interpreted a particular image on an Indus seal as being a depiction of Dandiya / Saila. Thanks also for pointing out that the term "Lanka" is associated with many village names in Bastar such as Kankerlanka, Chitalanka etc. and that it means "a place surrounded by water". This makes sense in the context of the Ramayana as well, in which Lanka was an island.Bibhu Dev Misrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15388473714672380058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-60160404265093566112019-12-25T08:59:36.414+05:302019-12-25T08:59:36.414+05:30छत्तीसगढ़ के बस्तर संभाग में बहुत सारे गांव के नाम ...छत्तीसगढ़ के बस्तर संभाग में बहुत सारे गांव के नाम में लंका जुड़ा होता है,जैसे कांकेरलंका,चितालंका,तोयलंका,बुरुंगलका,आकलंका,पुसलंका,लंकापल्ली,लंकावड़ा आदि, लंका का मतलब गोंडी में चारो तरफ से पानी से घिरा हुआ स्थान होता है,ये इलाका गोंड बहुल इलाका है.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-27339815754939170302019-12-25T08:48:45.640+05:302019-12-25T08:48:45.640+05:30छत्तीसगढ़ में दीपावली या छेर छेरा त्यौहार के वक़्त स...छत्तीसगढ़ में दीपावली या छेर छेरा त्यौहार के वक़्त सैला नृत्य करते है जो मुख्यतया गोंड जनजाति का नृत्य है, मगर इस नृत्य को गांव में सभी जाति के लोग भाग लेते है<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6OlEVFoLAwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-34933467275939789612019-11-01T10:55:34.897+05:302019-11-01T10:55:34.897+05:30The Gond script resembles the Late Harappan charac...The Gond script resembles the Late Harappan characters, and it would been extremely difficult for the Gonds to take Brahmi characters and work backwards to the Late Harappan symbols. These are unfounded statements made by those who want to undermine tribal culture and tribal presence in the IVC. The Gond script may have undergone consolidations and rationalizations, though, in the past century, as does any script. Bibhu Dev Misrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15388473714672380058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-53101770064389307862019-10-24T18:06:20.881+05:302019-10-24T18:06:20.881+05:30Update :- Recently, DNA analysis of a female skele...Update :- Recently, DNA analysis of a female skeleton dating back to ~2500 BCE was published and it was modelled as 73% Iran_Neolithic related ancestry and 27% Onge related ancestry. <br />Now Iran_Neolithic ancestry is used to represent a population of a few skeletons dating back to ~9000 BCE found near Ganj Dareh while Onge (a long, isolated andamanese tribe) is used as a proxy for AASI(Ancient Ancestral South Indian) / "Moolnivasi" ancestry.<br /> <br />Moreover, the study also estimated that the Iranian_Neolithic related ancestry in North India and Pakistan is not due to Neolithic migration from iran as was previously hypothesized but probably separated roughly 12,000 years ago. <br />Moreover, modern days gonds have VERY LITTLE of Iranian_Neolithic related ancestry which means that the chances are pretty slim that gonds might be dominant tribe in the western areas of IVC (of course, they might be present in the peripheral areas in the eastern fringes of IVC though i am still doubtful) .<br /><br />Of course, one should be careful while trying to derieve conclusions from a single sample and according to Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, burial was a less popular way of disposing off the dead in IVC . Let's hope more samples in the future can shed some light in the ethnic make-up of IVC. <br /><br />Regarding Gondi Script, i have heard that Gond script was created roughly 100 years ago takimg brahmi script as inspiration. Is it true ? <br />Thankstim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-70578698117700076172019-10-24T11:45:16.886+05:302019-10-24T11:45:16.886+05:30Thanks for leaving your comment. Yes, the Gonds do...Thanks for leaving your comment. Yes, the Gonds do have a number of interesting connections with the IVC, including their script, which should be explored further.Bibhu Dev Misrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15388473714672380058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-70059204846501150472019-10-22T16:38:18.569+05:302019-10-22T16:38:18.569+05:30This article and follow on discussion are quite in...This article and follow on discussion are quite interesting. Based on Gond's folklore, customs there's quite high probability of their connection with IVC. If I am not wrong then a few of IVC script have been deciphered too using Gond script. I would say, they share quite a few similarities. Moreover with gene indicator, your points are quite valid.raj krishnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06130076923051002547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-10797966923337993052019-06-27T23:10:46.257+05:302019-06-27T23:10:46.257+05:30Hello, I am not sure what you mean by "origin...Hello, I am not sure what you mean by "original symbol of gondi culture"...from what I understand the Gondi headress, with a pair of horns and a leafy branch or peacock plumes in the center, is a very important symbol of the Gondi culture. What do you want my feedback on?Bibhu Dev Misrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15388473714672380058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-73979611727784837432019-06-26T18:52:09.506+05:302019-06-26T18:52:09.506+05:30Hey 'unknowm', i want to know mpre about G...Hey 'unknowm', i want to know mpre about Gondi culture. Could you please reply back ? tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-18796331033119090932019-06-26T12:23:58.924+05:302019-06-26T12:23:58.924+05:30Our gondi culture is the best.. I'm proud of i...Our gondi culture is the best.. I'm proud of it..bt I want original symbol of our gondi culture...so plzz give me your feedback..im I waiting for your feedbackAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05773780873629121846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-65002948215229357972019-06-11T12:18:11.649+05:302019-06-11T12:18:11.649+05:30Thanks for sharing the details. It is quite intere...Thanks for sharing the details. It is quite interesting that such ancient customs are still being followed in the villages of Chhattisgarh.Bibhu Dev Misrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15388473714672380058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-85733893540596238262019-06-10T20:08:16.919+05:302019-06-10T20:08:16.919+05:30सभी सफ़ेद बकरे खुशनसीब नहीं होते, सिर्फ उन सफ़ेद बकर...सभी सफ़ेद बकरे खुशनसीब नहीं होते, सिर्फ उन सफ़ेद बकरो की बलि नहीं दी जाती जिन्हे पूजा पाठ करके छोड़ दिया जाता है,पहले ये परंपरा छत्तीसगढ़ बहुत आम थी अब सिर्फ गांव तक सिमित है. आपको छत्तीसगढ़ में अधिकतर शहर और गांव में ठाकुरदेव का चौरा या मंदिर मिल जायेगा ,ये अक्सर गांव के बाहर होते हैAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-58397565221125675052019-05-11T23:42:07.609+05:302019-05-11T23:42:07.609+05:30A large category of Brahmins in Northern India are...A large category of Brahmins in Northern India are called the Sakaldwipiya (Saka = Iran, dwipiya = land) brahmins, who trace their origins to Iran. They had established themselves in India as Maga-Brahmins during the Saka period. The same is true of the Gandhara Brahmins of North India. Many other men of learning who had accompanied the Saka and Kushana invaders had established themselves as Brahmins, within the folds of the existing Brahmin clans. Their intermarriage with existing Brahmins of Northern India over the past 2000 years would have increased the r1a1 frequency above the levels found in the other castes.Bibhu Dev Misrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15388473714672380058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-46195157214533112372019-05-09T15:33:00.513+05:302019-05-09T15:33:00.513+05:30Thanks for the reply , Bibhu ji.
1. As far as R1a...Thanks for the reply , Bibhu ji.<br />1. As far as R1a1 introgression goes , yes, it's found in various populations at varying %s. However, 'Dalits/SCs' and 'Tribals/STs' are not a single ,homogenous entity but rather these super-categories consist of hundreds of jaatis and jan-jaatis. SC Groups and tribes in the north-west will have decent % of R1a1 as opposed to groups in the south (though Chenchus and Saharias of central/south india do have decent % of R1a ). However, from what i know till now , nearly all indian R1a1a is a derived sub-clade of R1a-Z93 https://yfull.com/tree/R1a/ (mostly R1a-M780 whose coalescence time is expected to be around 5,000 years at most). <br /><br />2. This is quite an old paper and we have got hundreds of aDNA(ancient DNA from skeletons belonging to different time periods ) post 2013 . Y-HG C3, N and O (which are mostly east asian or north-east asian) have introgressed in Central Asia only in the last 2,500 years so ideally these Y-HGs won't be present in mainland india in high % if the migration took place prior to 1000 BCE. Hundreds of skeletons from Steppe Early and Middle Bronze age shows massive founder effects of R1b-Z2103 and R1a and barely any other Y-HGs.<br /><br />3. I could understand Sakas and Kushans becoming kings,warriors but them becoming brahmins is what i find hard to believe. Any intermarriage with the Sakas and Kushans with the brahmins would have involved Sakas/Kushans females as varna was inherited from the male side. <br /><br />4. We don't have ancient DNA from Indus valley so far so hard to say which groups of people were living there. As for the single sample of Rakhigarhi, yes, from what i heard, it's shows closeness to the Irula people(P.S -- The "tribal people of Southern India" is a bit vague as tribes of south india are not homogenous. Tribes like Toda and Kota are different in their autosomal ancestry compared to Irulas).tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-70145833199987467572019-05-08T18:52:03.482+05:302019-05-08T18:52:03.482+05:30Tim,
There are some factual inaccuracies about yo...Tim, <br />There are some factual inaccuracies about your statements regarding the presence of steppe genes in the Indian population. Let me clarify.<br /><br />1. It is true that the R1a1 haplogroup is found at a high level (35%) among the Brahmins of Northern India. However it is also present amongst the Dalits (lower caste) population (24%) as well as the tribals (10%). Some tribal groups such as the Saharia (26%) and the Chenchu (26%) have a high percentage of R1a1 which dismisses the myth that R1a1 is not native to India.<br /><br />2. The higher percentage of R1a1 amongst the Brahmin community has led to the theory of the influx of steppe genes. However, the other frequent Central Asian Y-haplogroups (C3, DE, I, G, J, N and O) are not present amongst the Indian Brahmin community at the same frequencies. This has led some scholars to suggest that R1a1 could have moved out of India into Central Asia. Refer: https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg20082<br /><br />3. I have already indicated my thinking that the Saka (Iran) and Kushana (Central Asia) invaders could have brought in R1a1 haplogroup, since many of the invaders established themselves as members of the higher castes (Brahmin / Kshatriya). The Saka and the Kushana empires (2nd century BC - 4th century AD), at their peak, spanned nearly the whole of Northern India and the Gangetic Plains. Even a small number of settlers could have increased the frequency of R1a1 amongst the Brahmin community, due to intermarriage.<br /><br />4. The Swat Valley DNA from 1200 BCE is irrelevant since by that time the Indus Civilization had completely collapsed and a large fraction of the population had migrated eastwards into India and westwards towards Mesopotamia, Syria, Egypt, Crete etc. as I have indicated in many of my articles. Besides, the DNA profile of peripheral populations can shed no light, whatsoever, on the DNA profile of any country. We have to rely on Harappan DNA, and the single sample, as of now, shows close connections to the tribal people of Southern India. We have to wait till further studies are done.Bibhu Dev Misrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15388473714672380058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-21421180096987784832019-04-26T12:17:24.976+05:302019-04-26T12:17:24.976+05:30Yeah but the sample in question is just a single s...Yeah but the sample in question is just a single sample from rakhigarhi. We wil need more samples from IVC to arrive at a mote concrete conclusion.<br />Regarding Sakas, what you say is true but the researchers using their statistical methods identify the time of earliest admixture aroumd 2nd millenium BCE. Moreover, we have ancient DNA from swat valley around 1200 BCE and those are nothing like irula. Moreover, i don't think the impact of sakas and hunas was so high that it would impact all the brahmin groups of gangetic plains(and even south). If you ever get the time Bibhu ji, get your autosomal ancestry checked :)tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-32685166046416005352019-04-24T23:54:41.517+05:302019-04-24T23:54:41.517+05:30The timeline for steppe gene admixture is generall...The timeline for steppe gene admixture is generally identified as the period between 2000 BCE - 0 BCE. The invasions from 600 BCE onwards by various tribes from Iran and Central Asia adequately account for this gene flow. Unfortunately this historical fact is regularly overlooked by most researchers, deliberately or otherwise. <br />We can say something definite about the Harappan DNA only by extracting DNA samples from the Harappan period. The recent analysis of DNA from Rakhigarhi shows absence of any steppe genes, and a close affinity with the Dravidian tribal group ‘Irula’, currently living in Tamil Nadu and Kerala. This ties in with my hypothesis that many Harappan tribes migrated to Central and Southern India and lived in remote forested locations, and are identified as the "tribals" of the modern day. Bibhu Dev Misrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15388473714672380058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-75389929729937642202019-04-17T17:54:54.218+05:302019-04-17T17:54:54.218+05:30Actually,there is support for migration(forget the...Actually,there is support for migration(forget the word 'aryan' for a while) of at least around 2nd millenium BCE(There was a recent pre-print "Genomic Formation of South and central Asia" ). R1a1 is just Y-chromosome, autosomal genome in lot of groups in north(including gangetic plains) and north-western india especially indicate steppe related ancestry which is not present in the gonds. tim drakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05093741606718091068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-2645234905222095262019-04-17T17:40:50.593+05:302019-04-17T17:40:50.593+05:30Thanks for sharing this information. Its interesti...Thanks for sharing this information. Its interesting to know that the Gonds do not sacrifice "white" goats. I wonder, though, why this distinction is made between goats based on their colour...isn't this a form of racism? (just kidding) Bibhu Dev Misrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15388473714672380058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-88919125820402426402019-04-17T14:11:29.698+05:302019-04-17T14:11:29.698+05:30सर गोंड जनजाति के कई गोत्रो में सफ़ेद बकरे की बलि न...सर गोंड जनजाति के कई गोत्रो में सफ़ेद बकरे की बलि नहीं दी जाती, उसकी पूजा ग्राम रक्षक देवता के रूप में की जाती है, किसी तरह का धार्मिक अनुष्ठान करके बकरे को छोड़ दिया जाता है यह परंपरा छत्तीसगढ़ बहुत आम है Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6864653463177413678.post-4158218258926817312018-12-26T18:33:45.613+05:302018-12-26T18:33:45.613+05:30We love ourself calling koytoor or koitoor it mean...We love ourself calling koytoor or koitoor it means people who live in koya or caves.aakankshahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17162851726619338028noreply@blogger.com